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Optimism and Progress - A Conversation with Chelsea Follett
By Victor Perton
In the latest episode of The Optimism Man podcast, I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Chelsea Follett, the Managing Editor of HumanProgress.org and author of Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World. Chelsea’s work exemplifies what we at The Centre for Optimism hold dear: a steadfast belief that optimism, rooted in tangible evidence and a deep understanding of history, is essential to driving human flourishing.
• 60 min
Progress and Optimism: Chelsea Follett and Victor Perton in Conversation
That Optimism Man Victor Perton
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In opening our conversation, I asked Chelsea one of my favourite questions: “What makes you optimistic? Is it life experience? Is it faith? Is it mindset?”
Her response struck me deeply. “In my personal life, all of those things apply. But when it comes to being optimistic about the state of the world and society more generally, I think that many people don’t realise just how many data points there are in support of a rational optimism about the state of the world,” she said.
Chelsea explained how, as Managing Editor of HumanProgress.org, she curates a vast array of data from trusted, non-partisan sources like the World Bank and respected scholars. The metrics—tracking literacy, nutrition, and wealth, among many others—reflect a bipartisan definition of progress: anything that advances human well-being. Chelsea emphasised that, while her site includes negative trends, the overwhelming majority of data shows steady, often dramatic, improvement over the long term.
Chelsea’s optimism is grounded in facts, data, and historical perspective, and her dedication to providing the public with this evidence-based view of global improvement reminds us that optimism can be rational and actionable. She has a gift for weaving together data and history to show the true scale of human progress. HumanProgress.org catalogues how well-being has improved over time—higher life expectancy, sustainable resource use, better health outcomes, and stronger economies worldwide. Looking at these gains over centuries or even decades, we can see that humanity is indeed on an upward trajectory. This outlook, rooted in data, is deeply empowering and a powerful counterbalance to the often pessimistic narratives we encounter in daily media.
Our discussion also touched on her book Centers of Progress, in which she chronicles 40 cities that have been instrumental in shaping society. Each city reflects a unique moment in human history that catalysed progress, from advanced sanitation in the Indus Valley to the scientific breakthroughs of Renaissance Europe. The cities, Chelsea explained, represent “hopeful moments of progress and innovation” where people came together to build something lasting for society. Each chapter celebrates human ingenuity, demonstrating how optimism, harnessed to action, has propelled humanity forward.
Chelsea’s evidence-based optimism shows that when people see progress, they are motivated to protect it, build upon it, and create even more improvements. As Chelsea pointed out, despair is dangerous; it stifles innovation and immobilises us. Yet, when we focus on the achievements and opportunities in front of us, we are inspired to continue making strides in environmental sustainability, public health, or technology.
Chelsea shared a powerful insight on how optimism influences action when discussing the environment. She noted that despite significant environmental challenges, apocalyptic rhetoric often alienates people. “When we highlight the possibility of positive change and showcase the progress already made, people are far more willing to engage,” she explained. Environmental data she referenced included the fact that forest areas are increasing in wealthier countries due to sustainable practices—a testament to how optimism, paired with action, can make a tangible difference.
Chelsea’s perspective is a breath of fresh air as both a researcher and an optimist. I highly recommend listening to this episode for those who may feel overwhelmed by a pessimistic news cycle. Her optimism, deeply informed by data and an appreciation for history, is infectious. Our conversation left me inspired, hopeful, and further convinced of the transformative power of optimism—something I believe the world needs now more than ever.
I invite you to join us in celebrating Chelsea's evidence-based optimism in the conversation. Tune in, listen, and let her message remind you that optimism and action can light the path to a better future.
Listen to the full episode and discover why optimism, grounded in progress, is not just a mindset but a way to inspire positive action.
• 60 min
Progress and Optimism: Chelsea Follett and Victor Perton in Conversation
That Optimism Man Victor Perton
Play
Finally, I commend Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World to all those seeking an inspiring, accessible journey through history. Chelsea’s book shows us how optimism and human ingenuity continue transforming our world, city by city.
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That Optimism Man Victor Perton
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