Rob Volpe - Empathy Activist and Optimist

Rob Volpe is the author of Tell Me More About That: Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time.  He is the CEO of Ignite 360, a consumer insight and strategy firm.  We met through our friends at The Art and Science of Joy, who identified us as superpowers of joy.

We joined together in a conversation about optimism and empathy.

Victor Perton: Rob, you're an empathy activist, so I feel you're a soulmate. Please tell me what makes you optimistic. Is it nature or nurture?

Rob Volpe: "It is nature to start. There is something in myself that just naturally gravitates that way. Still, some nurturing happened along the way as I was growing up that also got me to look for the positives and look on the bright side because when does personality form? 

"And I'm in the enneagram world for people that follow that. I am a hardcore Enneagram seven, which is that adventurer and always looking for new experiences. And I talk about this with my therapist when something comes up, and I'll be like, "Yeah, that happened, and I was upset about it, and then I just pushed through or got my way out of it." He says, "Yeah, that's you being a seven, not wanting to dwell on negative experiences and just moving on to the next thing." 

"And it served me well. I was always positive and optimistic when I was young. 

"In my book, "Tell Me More About That: Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time." I write about what I went through growing up in Indiana and being bullied and teased by my classmates. And that was really hard, and I contemplated suicide at certain points. But I guess I can say I chose not to do that. I was able to pull myself out of that. I mean, the thing that actually.

"I write about this; I held onto the fact that I knew I'd be able to leave. I just had to wait long enough. And when you're 12 going to 18 and graduating high school, and being able to leave to go to college, that's a lot of years. It's like half of your life at that point. But I don't know; somehow, I made it, and I just had to hold onto that optimism towards a better future."

Victor Perton: "It's interesting because I've recently written an essay, In Praise of Pollyanna, and the more you read both the novel, watch the film and think about it, the thinking isn't all that different from the German psychotherapist Viktor Frankl, a man search for meaning and that tragic optimism that he talks about, which is doing your best in whatever circumstances you are in. And we run the Nelson Mandela Youth Leadership Summit, and the theme is based on what Mandela said: "I'm an optimist. I don't know whether it's nature or nurture; I know it's keeping my face to the sun and one stepping in front of the other." So it sounds like you just naturally, as a teenager, knew that things would work out."

Rob Volpe: "Yeah, I did. And I had enough positive experiences and opportunities within all. I had happy moments to hold onto or look forward to, which helped keep me going. And there were things that I was able to enjoy. It's so different than it is today. Once school was out, I could go home. I didn't hide in my room, but I could do what I wanted to do and explore my hobbies and interests. And it's different from how things are now with kids and teenagers with social media and just regular text communication if they have phones. So yes, that is a good observation."

Victor Perton: "So we've come together because we are both superpowers of joy, and optimists always feel more joyful. And I'm sure that empathetic people feel more joyful and experience more moments of joy. So what makes you feel optimistic? What are the experiences in your day-to-day, in your week-to-week, in your work, in your home life?"

Rob Volpe: "I mean, it can be those small moments. It can be the small moment of interacting with the cashier at the supermarket instead of just making it transactional, "Hey, how's your day going?" 

"And I was there a few weeks ago, and I had never met this cashier before. I started talking to her. It was first thing in the morning, and she explained to me how she was in phase one of her day. And phase one ran until lunch. So that was phase two when her lunch break. And then phase three was her afternoon shift, and then she'd go home and have phase four, which was being with her daughter. And it was just a fun conversation, and why not hear about what somebody's day is and what they're looking for? And it makes you happy to connect with other people and hear a little about them and what's going on, whether it's good or bad news. Just that human connection is so critical. 

"So on a small scale, it's that. And I actually was just back at that supermarket this weekend, and she happened to be working. And so I got in line, and it was like, "So which phase are we on right now?" And she laughed and remembered talking to me, and we could continue the conversation. That's a nice little tiny moment that took two minutes. But just that you're making those connections, you were each seeing and hearing each other; we're recognising each other. We have empathy, cognitive empathy, at least with each other. And so that helps. 

"I am watching more positive TV shows and managing how we interact with news and media. There was a show we were starting to watch that a friend had recommended. It was through Amazon Prime, and it was pretty graphic and pretty intense, and I was okay with it. My husband decided, "No, I don't want to watch that. I don't need this." 

"And I have found that I mean for myself, I cannot watch horror films because I don't want that energy and those images. I don't want that in my life. And that also contributes to my own positive outlook because I'm not dwelling on all those other things.

"When you talk to people that are Republican, for them some of them, the Trump years weren't so bad. For some, it was terrible. And then, if you're a Democrat or on the left, the sky was falling. And that's even an understatement. We were very concerned. So you end up, regardless of which side, some Republicans will tell you, "Oh, the Obama years were awful", where we were like ", that was an amazing nirvana" in many ways. 

"So when you talk to people or think about that, when you're faced with that, and you're in that environment that goes against what you want, so a government that's opposite, the news ends up being a lot of doom and gloom based on your alignment. 

"I contain my news consumption. I read the Washington Post, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal daily. I'm always looking through it. I'm a news junkie, but I don't leave it on during the day or control it. And we, during the height of the pandemic, just found it was too overwhelming. And so it was like 30 minutes World News Tonight on ABC, we'll watch that, get the news and go on with it, and then I can read stuff whenever because you don't need that feeding your brain. So that's in day-to-day life.

"Because I'm in enneagram seven with work, I try not to dwell on the bad stuff.   

"We're in a consulting business at Ignite 360, it's marketing research, and you win and lose projects. And just today, we lost a pretty good-sized project and had a quick online Gchat with my colleague who put the proposal together, and we were sighting like, "Oh, maybe we should've dialled this up or that up." And it's like, "It's okay; we've learned. Let's move on. Let's not dwell on, oh, we would've been the best or the lost revenue or whatever the thing was. Let's not get hung up on that."

"And a couple of hours later, we ended up winning a really big project, which was even bigger than the one we lost. Hooray. And back into optimism, and that all feels good."

Victor Perton: One of the things we teach people, and we've done it in prisons and hospitals, in Australia, the typical greeting is Good day, how are you? And the usual response is "not bad" or "not too bad". And so it's a nothing greeting. 

"We ask people to replace "How are You?" with what you asked the cashier, "What's been the best thing in your day?" 

"80% of people will give you a little story, improving your and their day. And I still remember because when I first started teaching it, we were wearing masks in Melbourne, and when I took the mask off and came into the supermarket, this guy said to me, he said, "You're the one that told me to change my greeting." I looked at him and smiled. He said, "Oh look, I don't have time to listen to all those good stories." It was just this lovely piece of Australian backhand humour."

Rob Volpe: "That's awesome.  And it's true. Instead of going through with a perfunctory and you're going to get a perfunctory answerback, ask, "What's been the best part of your day so far?" I like that people like it."

Victor Perton: "The funny thing from our combined engagement with Andrew Cannon and the Art and Science of Joy is that I'm more conscious that my positivity and my looking for the positive, I do experience more joy during the day. And it can be as simple as outside my house; this little urban forest is in the middle of the road. And yesterday, I was walking along, and there was this beautiful parrot with a yellow chest and colouring just above me. You stand there for a few minutes and just gobsmacked by the beauty."

Rob Volpe: "Yeah, well, it is all about how you choose to look at things. And I was with Andrew at an in-insights industry conference a couple of weeks ago in Austin, Texas, and we were talking about that choice that you make, the cognitive choice you make to be joyful or not and can actually ... this is about how you look at things and are you able to turn things around. One of the chapters in my book is about turning it around and changing perspective and how you choose to look at something. Shortly before we got on this call, I was looking out the window, and it's actually ... it rained a little bit in San Francisco. It's June; that never happens. So that's weird. I'm having an ongoing battle with some stink mushrooms in my backyard. And I had dug up a bunch of them over the weekend, and it was like we put the compost can out a day early just because it smelled so horrible. So yeah, it's whatever. It's one of those things. 

"And then I just noticed another one that's now popped up. I was just like, "Oh gosh, there it is." And I could get angry or upset or something. And instead, you choose to laugh about it, and it's like, "Oh there ..." And so I read up on it, flies that it attracts because it smells so bad. That's how it spreads the spores for the next set of mushrooms, and yet it also looks like a character out of The Last of Us in this weird sci-fi thing. I just let my brain go there, and it's all like it's just fun."

Victor Perton: "It's fun; it's fun. So what is the connection between empathy and optimism?"

Rob Volpe: "So empathy and optimism - this is the thing. If you're taking the time to have empathy with somebody and then utilising it, it's lightening the load carried. So you're going to be able to have more positive outcomes with people. And the positive feels lighter than the negative, which weighs you down, and you can ruminate on it. So by having empathy, you're trying to see other people's points of view, and you're going to have more positive engagements with them and get to a better resolution if you're having a conflict. That clears many things out of the way so that you can feel better and be more optimistic."

Victor Perton: That is a beautiful answer. We'll bottle that one.

"So you're the CEO of Ignite 360 a consumer insight and strategy firm helping brands identify and understand emerging macro trends and customer sentiments. And yesterday, I read an article that described pessimism in the world as a tsunami. I have described it as a fog. The senior minister in Singapore thinks it is the most significant public policy issue in the world, the collapse of optimism in the developed world. So what trends do you see at Ignite 360 on optimism and empathy? What are you seeing around optimism and empathy in San Francisco, America, and the world?"

Rob Volpe:  

"We've been running a study since April 2020 to follow American views, feelings, and things.

"Pessimism and optimism are tied to how things are going in your life and how things are going broadly. 

"There are elements of control that people are looking for. And right now, we've had a lot of feeling out of control, whether it's because your political party isn't in office or there's all this constant back and forth happening. And then inflation has been crazy over here. There's war in Europe that we're all worried about is one button push away from being nuclear. And so many of us grew up with that fear from the Cold War. 

"All the LGBTQ rights, as a gay man, that's really, really bothersome. Bothersome isn't even the right word. It's upsetting; it's disturbing.

"And so there's a lot of stuff that's happening. 

"However, I think where people still find joy and from the respondents we talk to, it's still finding the joy in your day-to-day life and what are those everyday moments of joy that you can find, whether it's like baking, and so you're baking, or you are having; getting together with friends and people that you trust. 

"Joy is a conduit to optimism. Optimism is a conduit to joy. Those two things are linked. 

"I like to believe that we are naturally optimistic as a species. How could we function without not being that way collectively? 

"So the "fog of pessimism"? There are so many things, things that have dampened empathy skills and dampened our sense of optimism as well. 

"The wormhole of social media that people get lost in and the negativity that can be there, the stress and the anxiety, the lack of social interaction and experiences with people in the way we hang out. 

"I think all of those things combined; you turn on the news, we are at a point in our history as a society, as a race of humans where we're in this "zero-sum game-winner takes all" mentality. 

"And so it can be very hard to be optimistic because you're not necessarily seeing the good in others, which you need to be able to do to get to a place of optimism or turn that around. And that's where empathy comes in and all those little conversations and what was the best part of your day questions and having those engagements. So we have to make a choice. 

"What I do think, though, that we don't appreciate right now is there is a vocal, visible minority that's ruining it for everybody else. 

"Something we've noticed here; I don't know if you see it in Australia, but some people drive like they're in Grand Theft Auto and swerving in and out of all the traffic and everything. That's one driver stressing out the drivers of the cars they pass. And that's the analogy for what happens. 

"It's like one person posting something on social media that gets picked up by the right people and all of a sudden, you've got Target pulling LGBTQ products out of stores, Bud Light laying off executives, all the things that are going on. And then that creates even more pandemonium and potentially pessimism. So we have to work even harder at making that choice to be optimistic or find those things that put optimism and joy into our day."

Rob Volpe:  "No, they're not. I do feel sorry for them."

Victor Perton: "We only had to worry about Richard Nixon and Brezhnev."

Rob Volpe: "Well, we only had to worry about the threat of the planet being annihilated by ourselves. And I don't know, maybe that feels different. It may have felt like we were a little bit more. We've been in control of climate change. We broadly have chosen not to do enough about it. But it was out of your and my control. I didn't have a conduit to Nixon, Reagan, Gorbachev, or any of them. And I'm presuming you didn't either, generally. So we couldn't talk sense into that. It was just truly out of our control. 

"With climate change, and it's that man-made climate change, man-made it, we've done it, and we're all guilty of it. We have all used too many. Whether it's plastic bottles that are now floating in the ocean, gasoline energy that's currently causing holes in the ozone and raising the planet's temperature that's causing all the ice to melt. We've all been guilty of something, yet no matter how hard you try, it doesn't seem to. The people in charge, the boomers, are not listening enough to do something about it.

"It is this existential crisis that the planet is just heating up, and we can't talk to the Earth the way I could speak to the Russians, in theory. And so the consumers we've talked to in the past on studies, it's like, "I'm one person; what can I do? It's just so huge."

Victor Perton:  "My last question for you. Who have been the positive leaders who have inspired you?"

Rob Volpe: "I've been fortunate. I have to pay tribute to my parents for helping me look at things differently; they did a lot to help instil or develop my empathy muscle when I was young. And then, as I started working even high school jobs, I started getting office jobs because I could also type on the phone and file things back when all of that was important. And I had bosses that just had a really positive outlook on things. And I had an internship at CNN and in London when I was studying over there, and one of the producers there was a British woman, and she was just like ... introduced me to the phrase, don't catch your knickers on a twist which I loved and still used to this day. And believe that, yeah, why bother? Don't get your knickers in a twist.

"And had some other bosses during college years. I had an office job at the American Psychological Association during the summer in their convention office. And we were working. Psychologists are not people you want to do customer service for. I love them, but they got cranky if they still needed to get their hotel reservation. But the director of the conventions at the time and the other manager I was working with just had a good sense of humour about it and helped me understand how to laugh it off and not take it so personally. We try to resolve the person's issue, and now let's talk about something else that will either make us happy or laugh about the insanity of what was going on. 

"So throughout, I've had a lot of bosses. So that was Candy and Natty at APA. There was a guy at HBO that I worked for years ago, Russell Schwartz, who always had a positive outlook on things. And that rubbed off on me. And I think at that point, it was formed. I had some friends that were optimistic lights that also helped."