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In this episode of "That Optimism Man" Podcast, I talk with Professor Carol Graham, a leading expert in the economics of optimism, hope, happiness, and wellbeing. Carol begins by sharing what makes her optimistic, noting that while faith isn't her primary driver, she believes in the spirituality of human beings and the importance of seeing beyond daily life. For her, optimism and hope are active mindsets that require determination and agency, emphasizing the belief that we can improve things for ourselves and others.
Our conversation delves into Carol's extensive research, including her studies in Peru, where she examined the coping strategies of the poor during periods of extreme hardship. This work, which began as a focus on the economics of optimism, evolved into a deeper exploration of the psychology behind optimism. Carol discovered that, despite living in severe poverty, these communities maintained a strong sense of hope and optimism, which helped them persist and achieve upward mobility. This combination of economic and psychological factors forms the basis of Carol's influential work.
We also discuss her data-driven research in the U.S., where she has observed stark contrasts between despair and optimism in different communities. For example, low-income African Americans are often far more optimistic than their white counterparts despite facing systemic challenges. This contrasts with the "deaths of despair" crisis among many low-income white Americans, highlighting how the presence—or absence—of optimism dramatically shapes life outcomes. Carol's studies further reveal that individuals who report higher levels of optimism are significantly more likely to live longer and enjoy better health. Her research establishes a clear link between optimism and longevity, showing that optimism can be a powerful predictor of healthier aging and a lower risk of significant health issues like heart disease.
Carol, the Leo Pasvolsky Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, is a College Park Professor at the University of Maryland and a Senior Scientist at Gallup. Her influential books, such as Happiness Around the World and The Pursuit of Happiness, have shaped global discussions on wellbeing economics. Her most recent book, The Power of Hope: How Wellbeing Science Can Save Us from Despair, is highly commended for its practical insights into how hope and optimism can transform individuals and societies. This episode explores how optimism and hope are essential for personal wellbeing and can be actively cultivated through public policy to address inequality, mental health, and societal challenges.
Read More: Carol Graham's The Power of Hope
The Power of Optimism for Healthy Longevity
Listen to the Podcast on Apple Podcasts
On Peruvian Optimism
"Freedom" and "it was just to start your own little business."
"you see people hustling in Peru; they'll sell anything. They're out there selling during beach season, selling beach toys in traffic or all the newspapers or whatever. And there's just this energy..."
"We had ten years of data from a very volatile economic period. We found that the poor (in Peru) had a lot of upward mobility and were coming out of poverty at a very high rate, partly because of market reforms. Those reforms were being criticised because the critics always assumed markets were bad for the poor instead of the problems of "barriers to the market", which were more harmful to the poor than anybody else."
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